Franchise QB

Episode 68: Keenan Fisher, Managing Partner- Tommy Guns Original Barbershop

• Mike Halpern • Season 1 • Episode 68

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In this episode of the Franchise QB Podcast, host Mike Halpern speaks with Keenan Fisher, managing partner of Tommy Guns Original Barbershop. 

They discuss Keenan's journey in the franchising industry, the unique customer experience offered by Tommy Guns, and the strategies behind modernizing the barbershop experience. Keenan shares insights on transitioning from an independent model to a franchise system, maintaining quality across multiple locations, and the importance of a customer-centric approach. The conversation also covers the qualities sought in franchise owners and the company's future growth plans.

Takeaways

-Keenan Fisher grew up in a family business, shaping his entrepreneurial mindset
-Tommy Guns focuses on providing a unique barbershop experience
-The brand emphasizes convenience and quality for customers
-Modernizing the barbershop experience involves technology and customer service
-Franchising requires a strong support system for franchisees
-Creating a customer-centric approach is key to success in franchising
-Investing in employee training and development is crucial for quality service
-The company has over 100 locations and is expanding internationally
-Franchise owners should have a competitive spirit and community focus
-The initial investment for a Tommy Guns franchise ranges from $450,000 to $500,000.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction
01:13 Keenan Fisher's Journey in Franchising
03:12 The Tommy Guns Experience
05:56 Modernizing the Barbershop Experience
08:50 Customer-Centric Approach in Franchising
12:13 Transitioning to a Franchise Model
15:07 Maintaining Quality Across Locations
17:54 Enhancing the Guest Experience
21:13 Franchise Owner Qualities and Costs
23:51 Future Growth and Expansion Plans

https://us.tommyguns.com/pages/franchise-tommy-guns

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Contact me and my team with any questions along the way. www.calendly.com/franchiseguy
Mike Halpern, CAFC
mike@franchiseqb.com

This is the Franchise QB Podcast, where we empower entrepreneurs to win big in franchising. We huddle up weekly to educate our audience about the most successful small business model ever created. Franchise it! Welcome to the Franchise QB podcast. I'm your host, Mike Halpern, a 20 year industry veteran and entrepreneur. My mission is for listeners to achieve their American dreams of creating wealth and independence through franchise ownership. Every week we speak with franchisees, franchisors or vendors that support the industry. Thank you for joining us and let's get started. Joining us in the huddle today is Keenan Fisher, managing partner of Tommy Gun's Original Barbershop. Welcome to the show, Keenan. Yeah, thanks, Mike. Excited to be here today. Yeah, it's great to have you here. So you grew up in the back of your family's salons. You watched your dad, Ken Fisher, really shape the beauty industry. And now as a second generation franchisor, you've taken that legacy to new heights that we're going to talk about today. And you've transformed Tommy Gun's Original Barbershop into a global brand. with over 100 locations across Canada, the US, Australia, and New Zealand. That's really impressive. Take us back to back in the day when you were growing up, you know, working in your family salons. Yeah, when I look back, I feel extremely fortunate, right, that I got to have that experience. And I probably didn't realize it at the time. But like most kids growing up, you love what your dad and what your parents are doing. you know, I really looked up to them. So I always wanted to be in the middle of it all. And so You know, we were a classic family business, entrepreneurial family. know, dinner talk was all about the business. As a kid, my siblings and I, you we were sweeping hair, we were stocking shelves, we were packing boxes in the warehouse. We weren't getting paid a lot, that's for sure. But we were in there and really loving it. I can't, you know, at the time, you don't realize it again, but you learn so much through that process, just through osmosis and being around it. listening and any chance I had to like sit in on calls, sit in on meetings, even from know eight, nine, ten years old, I was always all about it and you know I look back on that stuff very fondly because it really, one I think it drove my passion for two industries right, the hair and beauty industry and the barbering industry and also the franchise industry. I knew a lot about franchising you know at a very young age. knew about royalties and franchise agreements and and standards and operational manuals at 10, 12 years old. And that's served us very well. And so to be able to learn that at a young age and build that passion and then also get to continue on and continue to do it in a family environment has been pretty special. Yeah, that's a kind of a upbringing in entrepreneurship that a lot of people don't get in high school or college. So that's really neat that you were able to kind of grow up. in an entrepreneurial family. So alongside your dad, as well as your brother-in-law, Cory Anderson, you've helped the brand hit some incredible milestones, including over 10 million haircuts since you launched the business. So let's get into the brand a little bit. Tell us, what is Tommy Guns for anyone listening that isn't familiar with the concept? Absolutely. So Tommy Guns is the ultimate barbershop experience. So we're very much an experience-based concept. focused on a five level experience when you want it. you know, in short form, people ask me, well, what makes you different from the industry? Like, where do you fit in there? And for us, when we looked at the industry, and we had the, you know, I guess the fortunate position of being in it for decades and having two generations there. So we really understood where the industry was and what consumers wanted and where the gaps were. And you basically had two options. You could go where was convenient. which would also typically be convenient, low cost, and not necessarily experience your quality focused. Or you could go somewhere that was quality and a good experience, but not when you want it. You had to plan four, six, eight weeks out. And most guys are like me in an instance where someone says, hey, you need a haircut today, or I'm leaving for a conference tomorrow, or I got a date, or a meeting, and I'm like, oh man, I need my haircut and I need it today. And the place I want to go to needs to be booked. weeks out. So what we wanted to do is come up with something where it's the place you want to go, the experience is great, the quality of the cut is great, the environment is second to none, but build a system where you can do it the day you want it. Right? And so we build proprietary technology to manage this Queue type system where you could get in our queue the day you want the service. You didn't have to sacrifice convenience or quality. You could get both. You know, with that, there's obviously more layers where then the experience side, we wanted to be best in class there as well. So you're best in class and convenience and best in class and experience. And so we layered on all the elements around the haircut to make it best in class. So you're feeling supported, confident, and like a million bucks from start to finish of your interaction and even going forward. Yeah, that's really cool. I mean, I really like that convenience matters. You know, like you mentioned, guys aren't the best at planning out their week or their day. So that kind of gives us a head start and allows us to get that great cut you want at a convenient time. So tell us about like how else you've modernized the modern like barbershop experience while building this thriving franchise across Canada and obviously across a few other countries. Yeah, for sure. So the first part of that. of modernizing is really understanding what you don't want to lose, right? Because when you modernize something, sometimes you have these give-ups with your pick-ups, right? And so the first thing we knew is we really wanted to stay true to what the essence of what it is. And that's having an incredible experience, making sure we have best-in-class barbers, awesome education system, and so on. So that the actual heart and soul of what you do or the essence of what your business is maintains. And then everything around it. You can elevate through investments in technology, so our proprietary app and check in queue system, how we communicate with our guests through our CRM systems and email marketing and two-way communication. We elevated that all in. And so it's as simple as some things like, you know, we have a TV at every station. So typical barbershops may have some TVs or entertainment, but every station gets its own and it's inset. invisible appearing in the mirror, the guests in control, they all get complimentary beverages. We have a sophisticated and consistent service experience approach. So we have an every guest, every time policy. So our guests know what to expect each and every time they come to the shop, irregardless of what barber they're with and what location they're at. There are all these deliverables that are set out, laid out that they know that they will get each and every time. Yeah, that's really awesome. I mean, the TVs, inset in the mirrors and having an individualized experience like that is definitely a differentiator. So take us back. You mentioned your childhood before. How did some of those experiences shape your mindset in business? I know you're able to see like the evolution of the industry, but like, how did that kind of shape who you are as a business owner? Yeah, I think there's two things that really resonated. The initial one was don't be afraid to do it differently. to raise the ceiling and make sure that you have kind unlimited potential. And so, you know, I saw at an early age and this is, you my dad's approach was very different than anyone was doing in the industry. And what it did is it just kept raising the ceiling and he could just, you know, there was nowhere that they couldn't take it to. became, you you're just your own limitation. And so when you have that approach, you really feel like you can accomplish anything as well, right? So you're not acting, you're not operating in fear. You're operating in opportunity and... and in a very positive outlook, from a positive outlook. So I think that was the first one. And then the other thing that it really taught me is, is really that these things don't happen by one or two individuals. They don't happen overnight. They happen by a great collective effort. And you don't have to be the smartest, most skilled person. You don't have to know everything. mean, franchising in essence is very wide, right? Your marketing, your IT, your construction, your... leasing your operations, your distribution of logistics. You're running a whole lot of different businesses within it to service this business unit, and which is where the magic happens is in the barbershop, right? And everything around it's just to support that happening. But in order to do all that, it's impossible for you to be the best at all those things. You've got to bring in the best, and so you've got to surround yourself with great people. And then our roles as leaders, so like, my brother-in-law Cory and I is really to set them up for success, support them, help them with the vision and direction, but really just support their success. If we can create an environment where they thrive, then our business in a whole will thrive. And so that goes to the people within the support office, our franchise partners, the barbers in the shops, everyone. We got to create those environments where they can thrive to elevate the whole group. Yeah, it sounds like you made an intentional decision to build the experience around the customer. And you have this customer centric approach. How did you know that that was the path to take to kind of separate your brand? When did you see the opportunity in the barbershop industry by building your brand around the customer? I think at the time when we started, so in 2009, there wasn't really anyone in the space working that way. So guys were really just going where it was convenient, where their partner told them to go, where they had a family connection, they weren't really going anywhere that was catering to them. And so we could see that because we were in the environment and we weren't catering to those guests either. And so we saw and knew that there was a significant gap in that. And then on top of that, we're true believers that consumers are really what drive what is successful and what drives the industry, whether it be our industry or any, consumers will really drive the direction that it takes. And those that see where they want, what they want and provide it and solve that problem or provide that value offering that they're looking for are the ones that are successful. So working backwards from them, from the guests, was a real kind of easy starting point for us. Like how can we create the best experience for them? Because if we nail that part and we have lineups of customers at our shops, the rest we can figure out. We can figure out how to get them service all those things. And I'd say Our industry though is a bit unique where, you some industries it's really all just about the guest. And in our business, I believe we have two brands, right? So we have our consumer guest brand and then we have our employment brand because we employ skilled professionals. And so we focus as much on that part of the business as we do the consumer as well in creating the barber-centric experience as well as I guess, a centric experience. So we've talked a lot about the consumer side that kind of makes your brand unique. Let's talk about the franchise side. I you mentioned that, you your dad was a franchisor, you're a franchisor. When did you guys decide to kind of shift from an independent model to a franchise system? Like that take place in 09 or was that a long time before that? Yeah. And we're in a unique situation where we're already a franchise, right? Or my dad was. So we, when we started Tommy guns, we had that in mind. But we knew that if the only way we could franchise and scale is if the actual business model financially was viable. Because essentially you're selling a financial model, right? A business that can create someone or a cash flow and a return on investment. So we were very much narrow in our focus making sure we nailed that and not getting ahead of ourselves. But definitely had the mindset of, know, let's build this out so while we're doing it, we're being mindful at some point we want to franchise and scale this. once we can get through our proof of concept and actually know it's a successful financial model that we can scale on. And so the way that worked is we did the first location in Red Deer, Alberta. It's like a small mid-sized town in Western Canada. And we built up the concept we thought would work, did our budget, and we actually doubled the budget the first year. So we were feeling pretty good about ourselves, as you can imagine. High fives all around, all that. And then the next phase of what I said, so to me that was phase one of Proof of Concept. And then the next phase was phase two, which we're still in Proof of Concept because that was in our home market where we lived. You know, we had all our friends and family go on. were in all the community stuff. So it's like, can we do this with other types of markets, other types of real estate and so on? So we did about four or five deals with what I'd call Arms Length partners. So they were franchises, but there are people that we had prior relationships with. or did franchising with before. And they were in different types of real estate, different types of markets, bigger ones, downtown core, different types of environments. And through that, we learned a lot. So we learned what type of customers we were servicing in those markets, how to market to them, how to find our labor market in those environments and so on. And the great news was is they all worked. So each location was successful. And that was really then when we knew, okay, now we can... we can actually like truly turn on the franchising level. So at that time, were you in multiple provinces or was it all within the same province? It was in two across two provinces, two provinces. Okay. Yeah. So that kind of leads me to my next question. you guys have now expanded into multiple countries, even if you're in one country, like you have to, when you take it outside of that immediate friends and family and a franchise group, and then you expand it, you have to maintain quality. have to maintain consistency. You guys have done that not only through multiple units, but multiple countries. How do you guys pull that off? Yeah. And so I made a comment earlier of understanding that the magic happens in the shop, right? So our whole role as a support office is to provide the tools, programs and support to set up so that they can execute in the shops at a high level and be very successful. Right. So we were very much in tune with what's happening at shop level and how that's operating. So we built significant operational programs. We invest in education. We've got an online university. We have a global technical education team for our barware education. So that side of the business we invest in quite heavily in ensuring we have a really great support network and systems in place so that it makes it a lot easier to execute at shop level and at scale. And so that's probably the The biggest mistake that you try to avoid in franchising is don't grow ahead of your systems and support. If you get too big too quick and you don't have the systems and you don't have the support infrastructure in place, even if you have a great concept, it can fall apart. So we've been very prudent in ensuring that our pace of growth is not ahead of our ability to supply the level of support needed to be successful. And that could be a hard thing as a franchise or sometimes yeah, especially with how technology changes so quickly What really is like the gold standard for your business today and tech may be? Antiquated in a couple years So I think the benefits that franchise owners get is that you guys are constantly like behind the scenes trying to figure out And stay ahead of it so that the franchise owners don't have to worry about that. They just focus on the shop So let's talk a little bit about that. I know You're not going to give away all your secret sauce, but what are some of the little details that kind of make haircuts better and how do you intentionally make the guest experience better at Atomic Guns? Yeah. So I already talked about the staying true to the industry side and building education and making sure the barber experience is amazing. And what we focus on in addition to that is everything that happens around it. So from your initial touch point, whether that is that, whether that's walking in the front door, going onto our website or onto our app to check in to the follow up after you leave. And so we've got a built in every guess, every time process from start to finish. And when you're getting a haircut at a barber shop, it's not just about a good haircut. Like obviously you gotta have a great haircut, you wanna look good when you leave, but it's really about what are you getting out of it, what feeling are you getting? And we believe that we sell confidence. So through every step of that process, we wanna fill that guess with confidence. Confidence in us. and then confidence in them when they leave. So they feel like they can take on the world, right? There's an old clip, a couple of years old clip of Jason Tatum for the Boston Celtics and he's miked up for the game and he keeps going, I'm top five in the world, I'm top five. And the guy's like, what's with you? goes, I just got a fresh haircut. And I'm like, man, I wish that, like you said that at one of our events or something. would be- Yeah, like he's feeling himself. He's got that cut, he's on top of the world. great, right? Like, and I'm the same. I go for haircuts every two or three weeks and I come- And I'm like, I'm ready for whatever is going to be thrown at me. And so we want to supply that all the way through. then on top of it, after the service, we have a best in class selection of retail grooming products, right? So the barbering products, because if you get a great haircut and then you go home, you don't have the product, you don't know how to maintain it. The day of it, right? All your colleagues, everyone, your wife, whatever it is, like, you look great. It's awesome. You get that one day. So you got to keep it going. And the next day you can't style it. So we really want to make sure we're outfitting those guests. with the education and the products and tools to make sure they maintain that look. So they get that feeling for days, days after, and it extends that kind of benefit. So there's, there's obviously a lot of layers to that. but that's really our focus is it's not just the cut part needs to be great, but everything around it start to finish also is important. Yeah. No, I like the whole philosophy of like building the experience of the guest feels a certain way when they leave. And that's what is memorable. It makes them want to come back once. other friends and you know that organic referral growing pretty rapidly even at the unit level when that's kind of the culture of how owners are supposed to treat their guests and that's the feeling we're supposed to have we walk out the door. So let's talk a little bit about the labor model you mentioned the skilled labor the stylists that work for you what does that look like for a franchise owner in a single location? Yeah, so we believe, like I said, we have a consumer brand and employment brand. And so the employment brand side of it is creating a great environment that barbers thrive and finding out how to invest, develop, and attract and retain barbers. So we have very specific programs. So like in the US, we have the Veterans' Spouse Training Program. We have partnerships with various barber and cosmetology schools in the markets we operate in. We also invest heavily in technical training, so we have a global education team. And our global creative lead is a gentleman like John Mosley, he's out of Dallas, Texas, actually. And so we work with the best and the best in that environment. So we're, as a franchise, we're actually investing in the training and development of the skilled labor. So our operators get a tap into that. And that's a massive benefit when you're hiring with retention and also with growth, development and quality. So our global education teams actually made up of barbers that work within the franchise network, but also do time on their global education team and help develop those programs each and every year to bring out to the network. So there's an investment on the recruitment side, the marketing side, and then the training, development and growth of the teams. Got it. Thank you for that. So let's talk about kind of the state of the company. How many locations are currently open and operating and how many are under development? Yes, we have a little over 100 locations currently with about 40 in different stages of development So and the growth for us is happening lots in in Eastern Canada Australia New Zealand and now we're you know doing our push into the US where we've opened in Arizona and we'll be going into Utah Kind of spring of this year awesome. So That sounds like you have a lot of kind of focus on the vision for growth so Like what are you seeking in a franchise owner? know you guys have been doing this for a while. Who makes a good franchise owner now when you're out there trying to recruit? Obviously you want to get the great barbers to kind of staff the unit, but you need the great franchise owners that are kind of in lockstep with you as a franchisor. So what does that look like in terms of or qualities that you're seeking? know, qualities that we want to see is someone with a natural competitive spirit, someone who wants to win and do it together. So likes to be a part of a team type focus environment. wants to lead a team. we're not, over 80 % of our barbershops are multi-unit. So over 80 % of our franchise partners are multi-unit. So they want to build the business that scales and lead that team, whether it be the team in an individual shop or the leadership team that they put in place with the competitive spirit and someone who's also community focused. we... We are a community hub, but naturally as a barbershop. So that connection to the communities we operate in is really important to the success of the business and part of the culture. So those are kind of the key main elements, but being having a growth forward mindset is key. Very cool. Thank you for that. So let's talk item seven. How much does it cost to open a Tommy Guns, a road, original barbershop? I know. It's probably going to vary a little bit based on the footprint, how many stations, et cetera. But what's kind of the guidance there in terms of the turnkey opening costs? Yeah. Full investment all in in the US is about $450,000 to $500,000. And that's for franchise fee, inventory, equipment all-in. Yeah. That's actually not that huge of a range compared to some other brick and mortar franchises that we've had on the show. So let's talk a little bit about earnings. Item 19. What kind of FPRs do you? provide the candidates that are exploring the brand? Yeah, at this stage, so we provide average unit volume and sales and we do it by country and combined, including dollar conversions. And then we break out in our top 25%, bottom 25 % and middle median. So that, yeah, we provide the sales volume averages for the shops. Got it. Cool. This has been great, Keenan. Really appreciate all the detail. Anything else you want to add to the mix before we wrap up today? Yeah, no, just really appreciate to be on here. I mean, we're very excited about our future growth right now. So the more great people we get to connect with who want to be a part of that journey and everything, we're excited to get to know them and get in front of them. So looking forward to our continued U.S. expansion, which is obviously our big focus right now. with Utah opening next and like I said earlier we're taking a very strategic approach we won't grow past our ability to support so we'll make sure that we're very strategic in how we grow and nail out these markets. Is the location in Utah in the Salt Lake market? Yeah it's actually the first one there is going to be in Sandy which is essentially a suburb to Salt Lake. Okay. Really excited about that we actually have a local partnership with Jimmer Fredette out of there he's the BYU basketball star and recently. USA three-on-three players so we've got a great group there very excited to get in open there so we'll be we're planning to open in June and it's yeah exciting open for us for sure very cool well if anyone listening would like to connect with Keenan and his team to learn more about becoming a franchise owner with Tommy guns original barbershop contact me at FranchiseQB.com or on X @QBFranchiseQB I'll get you guys connected. Keenan, thank you so much for taking the time to get in the huddle and discuss Tommy Guns with us today. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate it. You got it. and for an actionable playbook to go from walk-on to legend in your new business. Follow us on Twitter at QB, FranchiseQB, and join us every week for a new episode. See you next time. Visit franchiseqb.com to take the next step of your journey towards wealth, independence, and franchise ownership. And remember, when working for the man gets old, you must do something bold. Thank you for listening.